If North Carolina appears to be off to a slow start in receiving commitments from football players for the class of 2010, well, it's partly because the Tar Heels are.
That's not the whole story. For one thing, UNC has a huge class of 29 players locked and loaded as the class of 2009, and is only planning to take 19 in the upcoming group.
But it's possible the Tar Heels are also being a bit too selective. When the best offensive lineman in the state is in your own backyard--Chapel Hill High's Robert Crisp--and you let him get away to arch-rival N.C. State, that isn't a good thing.
Again, take into consideration the fact that Crisp is a longtime Wolfpack fan, and that N.C. State coach Tom O'Brien is going to be difficult to recruit against in the best of circumstances. And also consider that last week, North Carolina landed one of the best OLs in the country in Indiana's James Hurst.
So UNC is obviously being selective. But when Johnavon Fulton, a brilliant CB out of Manning (S.C.) High, jokingly complains about not having received an offer from the Tar Heels when the rest of the college football world is offering him over and over again, you have to wonder how selective is too selective.
After making those comments, Fulton went on to become the Defensive MVP of Sunday's Scout.com combine at West Charlotte High, while posting the fastest 40-yard dash time of the day (4.44 seconds).
Maybe North Carolina will notice him now.--Stan Olson
Wednesday, April 29, 2009
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89 comments:
The UNC-CH crowd has an over inflated ego. They are just a minor football program. NC State is the premier program in North Carolina.
I'm sorry, I almost choke to death laughing anytime "premier program" and "NC State" are used in the same sentence.
How do you figure that, George? If anything, Wake or App. would be the ones to make that argument. I don't see much to separate State and UNC in prominence at the moment. But let's revisit this in a year or so and see how us Tar Heels stack up. Until then, you keep fooling yourself.
And oh yeah, Crisp is a serious State lean and has been for some time, UNC just got a commitment from a player ranked significantly higher at the same position, but somehow did something wrong? I don't follow the logic of that.
And pointing to one player that for any number of reasons hasn't been recruited by UNC as a red flag is overly simplistic at best. You begin by outlining why they have to be selective, but then scold them for being selective. Strange article, I must say.
Anon,
I pointed to one player (Crisp) as a prime example. I talked to many of the top players at sunday's combine, and it was the same across the board. Hurst was a great 'Get,' but at the same time, the Tar Heels had better protect their backyard. Dick Crum, Carl Torbush and John Bunting weren't able to do that effectively, and the results were obvious.
Me thinks this article is meant to generate conversation.
As with others, the flow and logic of this article escapes me.
None of the details noted matter till Signing Day.
Crisp was a 2 for 1 deal.
His buddy got the offer too, and UNC was not willing to commit to them both. I don't know how you can make this assertion nearly 10 months from signing day.
UNC has shown (as evidenced by the current class) that it will get involved in any and all situations it chooses.
See you on signing day!!
UNC not protecting their backyard? Care to look at the NC top 25 '09 seniors again?
Fact is... with Davis as HC, Carolina is able to recruit on a national level with the top programs in the nation. The Pack... well... they are regional.
Like all wuffies, George is delusional and boiling over with hatred and resentment. You'll always be stet kawlige. Deal with it.
Isn't being 'selective' what recruiting is all about? The Crisp situation doesn't carry any weight here b/c the Heels weren't after the other kid in the picture. UNC will be more selective with the spot that the Singer kid is taking up on the Wuffie roster.
Last time I checked Texas, Florida, and California have the best High School Pedigree. Who cares if Butch lets the states number one rated OL go to State, if you can a better OL out of state. I guess Roy is slipping too because he signs out of state recruits.
This will be a fun blog to pull out of the mothballs next Feb to compare notes.
My money's on "well, upon hindsight the speculation was baseless. but at the time it seemed about as sound as baseless speculation can be."
For all you Goat Boys...
41-10.
Guys this is a blog not an article. He just throwing an idea out there to give us something to read.
This whole article is pretty much a joke. Was the writer heading to the golf course and needed to get something out in the next oh, 60 seconds or so? This is a typical "Disturber" article meant only to generate conversation like someone else mentioned. Which in that case, did its job. Not much else. Let's see how Butch Davis fares in the next couple of years . . .
This is a blog based completely on misinformation. The blog mentioned Crisp, but failed to mention that two weeks later UNC gained a commitment from the 2nd-rated OT in the country in James Hurst. Coach Davis recruits the players he thinks are best for the UNC program, regardless of whether they're in-state or otherwise.
And if you're worried about the amount of players going to UNC from North Carolina, just look at last year's class, which had 14 commitments from the Old North State.
I'm just not convinced that just because Crisp goes to NC State that suddenly UNC is losing the recruiting battle. They over-recruited last year, and this year they're being more selective because they have to due to a lack of scholarships and because they're looking to sign the best players regardless of where they're located. It's not hard to figure that out.
Hey there Anon moron with the 41-10 comment, is that the score just before half in the basketball game?
Last year, the best OT in the state left and went to Florida, and yet UNC ended up with one of the Top 10 classes in the Nation. Too early to panic.
"Hey there Anon moron with the 41-10 comment, is that the score just before half in the basketball game?"
Funny. A basketball joke in reference to an article about football.
I guess that helps explain why UNC only had <2k at their spring game.
"The Recruiter" 0
"The Coach" 2
The way I look at it, Butch hasn't done much against TOB's teams, regardless of how many high ranking recruits are secured. It is what you do with the recruiting classes that matter.....having them prepared to play on gameday is one of them.
Just like an Anonymous Carolina Football fan (like the ones that failed to attend their Spring Game) to bring Basketball up in a Football conversation. LOL.
Another great article in the great Observer. Thank goodness UNC decided they didn't want Crisp. UNC can just pick and choose talent. LOL. These fine outstanding kids arrest records and classroom achievements say enough. Now why doesn't this program win? Can't wait to see your stars shine next year. You guys don't have the excuse articles ready?
Stan, I'm the anon. you replied to earlier. The reason I felt the need to respond to this one is it's a sore subject with me, this notion that every top in-state recruit has to be chased with the utmost urgency to maintain the program. One thing that's always stuck in my craw was T.A. McClendan spending four years talking about how he was saving his best stuff for the UNC game because of the insult of not having been recruited by them, given what a star he was in high school. Now I don't have any idea why we didn't go after him, maybe Bunting knew he was State-bound and didn't want to give him the opportunity to mindf**k us like A.J. Davis did, but the point is this: where do you get off demanding that UNC or any school SHOULD recruit you? Last year showed Davis can get right in there on in-state recruits and the year before that showed he could bring in studs from out-of-state as well. I agree we need to protect the homeland and all that, but I also think you have to look at the overall quality of the recruits we sign, not just which town from which they hail. I think what's going on with Roy and the bball team is very instructive to what Davis is trying to do. I don't think any UNC fans are bemoaning the fact that Hansbrough didn't come from Greensboro. You chase the kids you want, and you celebrate doubly when they're local, but you don't make that the defining feature of your program. Not if you want to compete nationally. Nobody criticized Amato for getting so many FL kids when he had his brief flirtation with success because they knew how much talent was down there. I'm not worried about insulting NC high school coaches or players. If they're good and we have an in, we'll get our share. And if they think we should have gone after them and we didn't, well that might just show that they didn't understand our program as much as they thought they did and they're probably better off somewhere else. Like State. They love nothing better than hating on us. Call me an optimist, but I think Butch will be just fine with the kids in NC and increasingly with the good ones that aren't, thank you very much.
Hmmmmm...6-7 or 8-5? I know the cow college fans like to hang their hat on the 41-10 and frankly, I commend your team for that. They beat a clearly superior team who came out flat in the 4th quarter. They played the game like it was their national championship while the Heels played like they were playing against their annoying little brother. Congratulations, cows, by beating a clearly superior team you nearly managed to finish .500 last year.
41 - 10. Im guessing Crisp got a glance at the game.
I am sick and tired of the inflated superego of the carolina fans in the state. you guys said that you would beat the crap out of NC State 42 to 10 ON SENIOR NIGHT AT UNC. hmmm saw how that one turned out right? There were easily more NCSU fans in the stands than there were for the home team. Davis was considering changing your school colors to aluminum and white to make the team feel more at home.
also, butch davis's recruits are nothing but thugs...For example in his past two recruiting classes, he has had AJ Blue, a QB with known gang affiliations, and Jheranie Boyd, another WR with gang connections and lack of mental sense. He has always run a very shady program, even when he was in miami(FL).
All I got to say is GO TO HELL CAROLINA
PS atta way to bring in bsketball to a football convo...the ultimate sign of being pathetic.
Spring practice =/= Spring game. When you've got no other athletics to be excited about, I suppose watching a scrimmage is fun. Carolina had the following sports going on the same day: #1 Baseball, #12 Softball, #7 Men's Lacrosse, #6 Women's Lacrosse, #20 Women's Tennis team as well. Those are national rankings, because we are a national school. I'm sure you all are doing great though... oh wait, the only top 25 poll you're in is Men's Golf. Congrats!
How about this: we UNC fans agree not to bring basketball into this conversation and you State agree to HAVE A CONVERSATION!
Most of the comments don't even say anything. We get it, you think we are spoiled. The original post was about that very topic. How about discussing it some, huh? Sheesh!
Brad's post is competely based on misinformation. The blog mentions Hurst in the fourth paragraph, but he apparently can't read and chose to whine instead. Oh well...strikes me he doesn't have a lot different from most Tar Baby fans in that regard.
Guys, my point was simply that I talked to a lot of top guys Sunday at the Scout.com combine, and many are getting little attention from the Heels. I mentioned Hurst, and I think that was a stunningly good catch.
I actually was curious to get folks' viewpoints on this, because almost every good coach I've spoken to over the years says to protect your backyard first. Look at how many players Florida gets out of Florida, Texas out of Texas, and so on.
Apparently, I'm not on the golf course yet, and haven't been for a year or two.
And the State infatuation with Carolina continues...It must really suck to watch the team you hate more than you love your own (because most of you were rejected by Carolina admissions)continue to build a soon to be Top 10 FB program to go along with the rest of our excellent sports programs (Mens and Womens Basketball, Mens and Womens Soccer, Baseball, Softball, Lacrosse, etc...) That's alright boys, you've always got bass fishing.
Stan Butch himself has said that in-state recruiting is his first priority and last years class backs that up.
As for the low amount of offers, it is most likely due to two factors: First, Carolina does not have as many to give this year so they are at a premium (we absolutely wanted Crisp but were not willing to offer Singer since he was not a D-I talent)and this years in-state class is much weaker than the previous year so not as many offers will be put on the table for them. Second, due to the turnover of the Staff things are behind in regards to evaluations and offers (Carolina just put their staff in place prior to Spring practice) and this week will be the first one where the assistants will be out in full force evaluating. A person will not get an offer prior to being personally evaluated by Carolina's staff regardless of how many other programs have offered.
Don't worry about Carolina, they will get theirs as Butch has shown with his 3 recruiting classes (A top 10 class, a top 20 class, and another class that had a higher avg star rating than the other two but wasn't ranked as high because of fewer numbers available).
This is a very difficult argument to make that Carolina is losing any recruiting battle when they are currently ranked #6 in the nation according to Rivals.com for 2009. Of course there are no team rankings for 2010 yet so we'll just have to wait and see. But if you look at the interest levels of the top 15 players (I don't have time to look deeper than that) in the 2010 class and compare how many players are interested in the top schools in the Carolinas (I included UNC, NC State, Wake, Clemson, S. Carolina, and Duke) those numbers tell a very different tale than this article. Duke (#4) and Wake (#15) each have 1 player's interest. NC State (#7 & #15), Clemson (#4 & #15), and S. Carolina (#4 & #15) all have 2 player's interest. None of these schools have any commitments from these players as of yet. But UNC (#1, #2, #4, #6, #8, #9, #10, & #15) has a total of 8 player's interest with 1 (#8) already signed. So if this is the result of being too selective, I'm all for it.
Stan this is a ridiculous article. So what if you talked to 3 or 4 kids who don't have offers from UNC? Signing day is almost a YEAR from now and not every school has dealt out their allotment of schollies. Also, of course Texas and Florida are staying in state...that is where the best HS talent is!!
To even question Butch's recruiting at UNC is laughable at BEST. in 2009 Butch landed 7 of the top 10 in-state recruits.
Crisp was a heavy NCSU lean all along, and UNC opted to go for the #2 OT in the entire country in the class of 2010 and landed him.
If Butch is doing a bad job recruiting, then nobody is doing a good job recruiting.
What a waste of time this entire article was
Is this a joke? Did you see the domination of in-state recruiting by Butch and staff last year? Did State get any of the top 20 players in NC? (serious question, i think they had a shot at one or two but I never even checked where they finished they were such a non-factor)
I think Butch will do just fine. Congrats to State on Crisp, looks like a great prospect and sounds like a good kid, but UNC never had a chance in that one (State fan and wanted a schollie for his buddy) and they knew it. In any event, Butch went out and inked a better prospect at the same position shortly thereafter. By signing day UNC will once again have the best in-state recruits this year, there is nothing to see here.
That said, yes, UNC is more seletive than State in recruiting because they can be and (with limited scholarships available this year) have to be.
ALL HAIL THE NATIONAL BASS FISHING CHAMPIONS! NCSU clearly has a better everything than UNC. After a brilliant 6-7 finish and a loss to a team that UNC thumped in their bowl game, NCSU fans have nothing to say but 41-10.
Meh. You guys still have the worst major athletic program in the state. Claiming to be a premier football program is stupid, but maybe not as stupid as acting like UNC fans are delusional. We're the ones with the athletic department that actually wins games in various sports, remember?
NCSU...delusions of grandeur and no on-the-field acheivements. Enjoy the parade y'all will have when you finish 9th in the ACC this year.
You know, TOB has reduced the whole NCSU game to one season. Those idiots beat UNC and won their Super Bowl so in their little Wuffie heads they are the best team on earth.
8-5 > 6-7
damn you don't know anything about Crisp. He was BOUND for NC State. The sad thing is, that when State gets a player that they are SUPPOSED to get, UNC has an over inflated ego.
George. State is nothing more than a 2nd tier team. No notice Nationally. Davis has UNC in a place that TOB will never get to.
kids in Hawaii will think about UNC. maybe not seriously, but THINK about. Thanks to Butch.
TOB gonna do that for you? nope.
hey Brian...let's wait until this season, shall we?
ps--i TEACH in NC.
so i know. so run along State fans and keep debasing other kids.
notice that UNC fans have nothing but GOOD things to say about Crisp.
and why aren't you doing the same?
Stan-
While I'm sure there are some players who are waiting on offers from Carolina, I don't think Crisp was one of them. I believe he had an offer and chose to attend State. I don't see how that's a case of Carolina missing a player out of being "selective."
Am I wrong on this?
WRW - You're not wrong at all. NCSU was his favorite all along and he is a lifelong fan. Would have taken a miracle for UNC to land him and for this guy to try and make it seem like UNC blatently dropped the ball on Crisp is just ridiculous.
I'm not even a UNC fan. I'm a Hokie.
Butch is a beast. Get off his back Stan. Butch can probably write better articles than you in between plays!
Stan,
Instead of immediately hacking out some drivel after talking to a few recruits, it might have been wise to do some research on why this might be the case (or at least analyze it).
#1 As mentioned above, UNC had to hire three new assistants in Feb. and recruiting territories had to be reorganized. This put UNC a bit behind schedule in the recruiting cycle.
#2 Only a few months after wrapping up the most dominating recruiting effort seen in NC in quite some time (maybe ever), it is absolutely asinine to suggest that Butch needs to learn to protect the NC borders or to compare him to Bunting, Torbush, etc.
Guys, I did forget about the turnover in staff that the Heels have had; that is bound to slow them out of the gate, as does their limited number of scholarships.
I do think guys who sell O'Brien short (and I think Davis is very good) are making a mistake. Reminds me of when Sheridan was in Raleigh; he didn't get name recruits but turned the guys he got into good teams.
What is the all-time record head to head in football between UNC and NC State?
To anyone who is surprised that State fans brought up gang relations, this is a fan base that had to put a special note in place on their message board so thier fans would stop making jokes/rude comments about the murder of Eve Carson. If that doesn't tell you A LOT about their fan base then nothing will.
Stan,
As a heel fan I do want to say thanks for sticking around and taking the time to atleast respond to some of the comments (especially admitting that you didn't think about the coaching turnover). Whether we agree with you or not that is commendable. Many sportswriters would just disappear.
To the very civil poster who actually said something nice to me, thanks! We're just gearing up this recruiting, and you guys are helping bring me up to speed...
Stan, you have obviously stirred up some discussion on this blog, which is good. As a general premise, it is indeed wise to lock up the recruits from in-state, but it is foolish to take kids just for the sake of having the numbers. Butch will always focus first on NC, then look to other states in the region which have historically yielded great high school talent.
The staff turnover has little to do with the number of NC kids offered at this point. The limited number of scholarships has forced the staff to be selective and they have determined that there are no more than eight (and probably more like five or six) NC kids this season who have shown to be legitimate prospects at a winning level for Division 1 football. Last year, the staff believed there were about twelve kids who fit that bill and they landed ten of them.
So nothing to see here, move along...
"kids in Hawaii will think about UNC. maybe not seriously, but THINK about. Thanks to Butch."
Thanks to Butch? Yeah right. If someone in Hawaii considers UNC, it is because of basketball.
ECU will still wax UNC this year...also NC State is the better team between the two
Stan
You keep making comments in the comments section everytime someone proves to you how shallow and stupid your article appears to those in the know about Butch and UNC. You offer a little apology in the end and then want to come back and attack Butch and UNC recruiting again with the remarks, "remember Sheridan!" No, you are a sleeze writer. You proceed to hurt Butch's reputation by planting thoughts in recruits minds and then the observer audience. If I was Butch, you would never be invited to the UNC football field or locker room to do any interviews period. That is not a well informed or well written article-it is just an "attack job" with no sustaining evidence. Are you getting senile now? You are a little "old," and perhaps your employer should watch how you cut good solid programs and coaches in the very state you live and breathe. Why don't you move to South Carolina and work the sports pages down there where you could more easily be understood by the good folks of North Carolina?
"We're just gearing up this recruiting, and you guys are helping bring me up to speed..."
Well that just about speaks for itself. Why bother with the commentary when you plainly admit that you aren't up to speed on the topic?
Newspapers.... with few niche exceptions, they really are a lost world at this point.
Blog rule #1. When writing an article about either Carolina or State, a comparison with the other school as part of the general premise will cause the point to be lost almost entirely and replaced instead by a p!ssing match.
A lesson learned long ago, Stan...lol.
LOL. Am I supposed to believe that Mr Olson and Wolfpack fans are concerned about UNC's slow start in recruiting?
Check back on signing day.
scamp
OK, Tar Heel Alum/fan that grew up in a NCSU family and likes the Pack as long as they are not playing my beloved Heels fan here! UNC IS being VERY selective this year which is a good thing and a measure of progress but anyone who thinks we wouldn't have been tickled pink to do a two fer on Robert Crisp even with Hurst is STUPID!! They would have fought out left and right and we would have had the best tackle combo in the country! Worth a twofer or a fourfer for that matter ANYDAY!!
I know how bad NCSU kicked our butt last year. I made myself sit through every minute of IT before heading for the parking deck to cook steamed oysters! I also know that would be a freak game for either team and won't likely happen again very soon in either direction! I also know NCSU like every other team in the ACC and SE shouldn’t like what they see going on at UNC! Butch is making unbelievable leaps and bounds in CH and everyone in the SE with a FB brain at all is getting nervous about it! The copywriting going forward is starting to look a little different and TO is making his own noise too!
However BD is on the verge of "selecting" ala Roy and that should and does scare you if you are sitting up and taking nourishment or need a "fresh" loaf of bread!
The word selective should never be used to describe UNC football recruiting......... most of the guys that Davis recruits do not belong in college.
It seemed last year everyone complained that Coach Davis was handing out too many scholarships. Now he isn't handing out enough? I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that Coach Davis is aware of both the NCAA guidelines regarding how many lpayers he may have on a roster. I also predict that he is aware of how many players it takes to field a football team. Furthermore, I expect another losing season for state and another winning season for UNC
good luck with that... i think you need to figure out your WR situation before you start making bowl game plans.
oh and your QB... didnt TJ Yates injury himself with a frisbee? way to live up to your team color and the opinion of your football team... Pansy!
1. watch the SEC for real football.
2. the star ranking system is an extremely flawed system. Please review Notre Dame and Wake Forrest and look how it has worked out for them.
The last poster made an on-target comment on the star system of grading players. Problem is, we don't have anything better, and you can't who has already peaked and who will continue growing in college, ala Wake Forest LB Aaron Curry. He had two stars in high school, and I think the recruiting sites would like a do-over on that one.
Many of the kids they do select, though, are properly measured, and I don't think James Hurst will lose a star or two for picking UNC over Ohio State or Southern Cal.
Moo-u fans are hilarious. They toss out "41-10" because they like to think it really bothers UNC fans, lol. In actuality, UNC OWNS moo and always will. Football, basketball, baseball...I'll concede the bass fishin', tractor pullin' and baccy spittin' titles. What a bunch of delusional foul-mouthed bleacher peein' idiots, lol.
Is moo a football school now? When did THEY decide that? I know it had to be a delusional moo fan because no one else in the civilized would ever recognize moo as worthy of being linked to any sport. Well, maybe sucking hind tit when it come to the Tar Heels. Moo will never be anything above second-best and right now they're at most the 4th best program in the state.
Silly moo fans. Get a grip on reality boys and girls. You're UNC's biatches and you always will be. That's good stuff, lol.
To Stan and the idiot who referenced the Star system being flawed by pointing to ND and Wake,
First, to the idiot. Your post contradicts itself. It points to the SEC being the premier conference then mentions Star's not mattering. Hey moron, the SEC gets more highly ranked players than ANY other conference so if stars don't matter the SEC would disagree so pick one genius.
Second, I believe anyone who has a FB IQ would agree that coaching had more to do with the state of those two programs (ND and Wake)than talent. Grobe knows how to make his players better and Weiss is an absolutely horrible developer of talent and coach. Stars do matter (look at USC and the SEC as previously mentioned), but if a coach can't do anything with the talent that they have it doesn't matter how talented your team is (ND). Butch has proven (Miami) that he knows what to do when he has the right talent...just look at the on field results and the players he had drafted. So while all of this concern about Carolina is appreciated we'll be just fine.
Stan, I made myself read through all these flames in the comments section in hopes that you'd answer my question, so let me give it one more try:
How is Crisp an example of UNC being too selective when they offered him a scholarship and he simply chose to go elsewhere?
WRW,
Crisp isn't an example of the Heels being too selection; just an example of them not grabbing the consensus No.1 prospect in the state. I know they offered, and I know they had little chance of getting him because of his NCSU ties.
The point (well, one of them) was simply, watch out for the 'Pack under O'Brien; he's a very good and underrated recruiter. Because of that, Davis won't own the state like Mack Brown once did. But both programs will be considerably better in the long run because these two coaches have taken over.
"For all you Goat Boys...
41-10."
How about 63-29-6?
"You don't own state in football and never will."
98 games.
State has won 29 of them.
What do you call that?
If you're gonna run your mouth, talk about a team you actually beat more than 30 percent of the time.
NC State is mediocre at just about everything.
State fans, please stop whining because someone mentioned basketball. You might mention it too if State was actually that good at anything. Which they aren't. Hope all that beer and bbq makes you feel better about your team being totally irrelevant.
"First, to the idiot. Your post contradicts itself. It points to the SEC being the premier conference then mentions Star's not mattering. Hey moron, the SEC gets more highly ranked players than ANY other conference so if stars don't matter the SEC would disagree so pick one genius."
My post does not contradict its self; I think you need to get your reading comprehension checked. You clearly are not a UNC grad; I have a much higher opinion for their intellect.
Please take note of the numbers and the space between the points. They are clearly two separate comments
1. watch the SEC for real football.
2. the star ranking system is an extremely flawed system. Please review Notre Dame and Wake Forrest and look how it has worked out for them.
No where did i connect the two you primitive bipedal hominid.
The SEC is better because the majority of the players are from the gulf states and not the star rating of the players. The gulf states have a deeper rooted high school football tradition and have a larger pool of quality players. Too much competition in NC for talent and its not possible to consistently import enough talent. Be happy with a top 25 finish.
Actually, UNC is WHERE they teach proper grammar...Of which YOU'RE apparently not capable...
"The point (well, one of them) was simply, watch out for the 'Pack under O'Brien; he's a very good and underrated recruiter. Because of that, Davis won't own the state like Mack Brown once did."
Did the Observer have someone else assigned to cover football recruiting last year?
Davis dominated the NC class of 2009 to an extent that no one has done before, more dominant than any of Mack Brown's in-state classes.
Will Davis dominate like that on an annual basis? Of course not, but there is just some bizarre commentary going on here.
Butch: 12-12
TOB: 11-13
We all know who has won the head to head match up. Seems to me that getting all the top classes and talent across the nation does you no good if you cant perform on the field. At the end of the day its about results. Butch has gotten alot of big names and sure future draft picks and has won how many bowl games? Or beaten NCSU? Doesn't matter if you getting 5 stars from MD and 4 stars from VA if they cant beat 3 and 2 stars from NCSU. Im neither a heel or wolf (Seminole for life) but i think its funny that unc fans bring up bball or all the top recruits when you havent done anything with them. this year coming is supposed to be the "break out" year for the class of 2007 that included marvin austin, paulus, d jones (if he still on the team)etc. these were supposed to be the class to beat for unc and they got destroyed by a bunch of no names at home. from the outside looking in i would say NCSU is the better program AT THE MOMENT, but Wake is by far the best in the state. and anyone who thinks differently tell me how many acc titles and BCS bowl appearnces UNC and NCSU have combined in the butch o'brien era?
I don't totally agree with Wake being the premiere because of winning the acc title because o'brien and davis have only been around for two years. This is the year everyone will see who has the better program and better coach. Both coaches came in to rebuilding situations and looks like they have turned both programs around. The only difference is State has a playmaker on offense with Russell Wilson and could have the comeback player of the year if Toney Baker can return to form. Who is going to score for UNC? We have an interesting football season coming up in the Carolinas get ready boys
"I dont agree...." yes they have been there only two years, so is that Wake's fault? should we say well yeah wake is the best in the state besides unc and ncsu? do they deserve a grace period to get on the map and at least compete in the state? i understand that it takes time to rebuild trust me im a fsu fan. what im saying is that while they are building and getting the players that fit their system, wake is the best in the state. you cant say well we will wait and see. and if unc does nothing again this year will you say "well i dont agree because they have only been there for 3 years, then it will be 4 years" when does it stop? i know it hurts to confess wfu is nice but they are. they are the only nc school to win the acc in recent history. give them their props and mind you they did it with ken moore and aaron curry who were 3 stars i think coming out of hs. also with a smaller known program. wake is the best program in nc RIGHT NOW.
"We all know who has won the head to head match up. Seems to me that getting all the top classes and talent across the nation does you no good if you cant perform on the field. At the end of the day its about results. Butch has gotten alot of big names and sure future draft picks and has won how many bowl games?"
Butch Davis has been at UNC for 2 seasons, his recruits haven't even been the ones playing for the most part. "His" recruits who were playing were doing so as true freshmen or sophomores. Give it a little time before talking about how well the talent translates into wins.
Regarding bowl games, I think that prior to this past season, Davis had never lost a bowl game (4-0). One of the years would have likely been a national title, but his team was passed over in favor of a team that Miami beat in the regular season.
Thanks for your answer Stan. But I have to take issue:
"Crisp isn't an example of the Heels being too selection; just an example of them not grabbing the consensus No.1 prospect in the state."
It sure seemed like this post was about Carolina recruiting being selective, starting with the title, "Are Tar Heels being too selective?"
"The point (well, one of them) was simply, watch out for the 'Pack under O'Brien; he's a very good and underrated recruiter. Because of that, Davis won't own the state like Mack Brown once did."
So if the point is about NC State, why does almost the entire post focus on UNC? And as another poster pointed out, the most recent recruiting classes don't come close to supporting your point. UNC signed 7-8 of the top 10 players in NC; State signed none.
"Butch davis has been at UNC for 2 seasons...."
Anon: exactly my point. i posted that wake was the best program in NC RIGHT NOW. not in 2 years or after butchs' recruits develop. we are talking about as of May 1,2009 trust me it kills me to think about the 30-0 smashing they put on us at home but real recognizes real. what bcs games have unc or ncsu been to during or before the butch o'brien era? how many acc titles in recent history? give them respect they have won the acc and played in bcs with so called low ranking recruits. all im sayin is that until these 5 and 4 stars start playing like it, wake is at the top.
The comment about Davis being at UNC had nothing to do with Wake Forest or any concept of "best program." In fact, I fail to see how an argument on that topic has anything to do with Stan's commentary. I'm not sure why people are discussing it at all.
Davis being at UNC was in response to the suggestion that Davis wasn't doing anything with the talent he's recruiting. In an attempt to make that obvious, I quoted the relevant excert, prior to making my point.
i dont care about what stan said. im trying to bring light to the arguments going back and forth about the best program in nc. alot of people seem to think that unc and ncsu are the top two programs. i am giving my opinion on that topic. who cares about the recruits butch is bringing in if they are not producing against lesser talent (supposedly). i think wake is at the top with ecu behind them lol. anyone think differently ecu beat the acc champions last year
"Butch Davis has been at UNC for 2 seasons, his recruits haven't even been the ones playing for the most part. "His" recruits who were playing were doing so as true freshmen or sophomores. Give it a little time before talking about how well the talent translates into wins."
Anon: so what has TOB done with his recruits who were playing as freshman and sophomores besides beating EVERY SCHOOL IN NC? how much time does he need to get 5/4 star recruits ready? and why are they not playing, of course they are better than those who were already there prior? a five/four star is supposed to make an impact immediately especially at a unc, if not then redshirt.
ECU beat the ACC champions minus their two best and most important players.
But yeah I agree with what you're sayin though, about WF.
"Anon: so what has TOB done with his recruits who were playing as freshman and sophomores besides beating EVERY SCHOOL IN NC?"
I didn't say anything about what TOB has or hasn't done. One thing he hasn't done is go .500 during a season. I'm not sure why NCSU fans are so focused on UNC, but if that's where their attention is drawn then so be it.
There's nothing wrong with NCSU fans being optimistic, why not feel that way? Things appear to be improved from where you were 2 years ago. If I were a NCSU fan, I'd focus on that, rather than worrying myself over UNC's recruiting.
NC State beat every team in North Carolina last year.... does that tell you something about being the best program in the state?
UNC is 63-29 vs NC State in football all time.
UNC is 63-29 vs NC State in football all time.
and that's ALL that matters. But buck up Wolfpack, you always have basketball and baseball. Wait a minute, we OWN you in that!
How about Soccer oh darn, the women AND men went to the National Title game.
Is there ANY SPORT that Carolina DOESN'T dominate State in?
TIME OUT!
State fans talking about thugs on opposing school's football teams?
Well hello there, I assume that your name is Pot?
"you have no offense and your defense is overrated considering NCSU put up 41 against you."
soo... does that mean Florida is bad because Ole' Miss scored 23?
"you have no offense and your defense is overrated considering NCSU put up 41 against you."
so.. does that mean Florida is bad because they let Ole' Miss score 23?? i think not and i dont care if this doesnt make any sense
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